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PostSubject: heaters   Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:51 am

does anyone know of a good 12volt plug in dashboard heater (for de-misting) i've bought one from a camping shop but it was rubbish. Any advice would be really helpfull.
cheers ritchie.
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dartmoor

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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:00 am

ritchiemutley wrote:
does anyone know of a good 12volt plug in dashboard heater (for de-misting) i've bought one from a camping shop but it was rubbish. Any advice would be really helpfull.
cheers ritchie.

I don't think a good exists. I bought the just kampers one - it was very ineffective. Basically it is difficult to get enough power from a 12v socket to drive a fan heater methinks.
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:59 am

thats what i thought, thanks anyway!
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:33 am

I have noticed this 12v / 150w heater for sale - but no notion if it is a good or bad idea in terms of performance and power drainage.
http://www.t2customs.co.uk/AdditionalHeatersSalePage.htm
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TimV
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:48 pm

Here's another one from those super folks at Maplins.

Not sure how good it'll be though given the price: £7.49

Maplin Ceramic Heater

Mind you - at that price you could have a whole load of them around the interior!

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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:52 pm

thanks osg and timv i shall have a look, gotta be worth a try! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:21 pm

I've got the one Tim mentioned from maplins, and to be honest,' her in doors' gives off more hot air ( I can say that coz she doesn't read this.......I hope!!)
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:40 pm

I'm afraid it just isn't worth trying to heat your van from 12V.

For anyone not in the know, watts = volts x amps.

I'm not sure what the VW fuse is, but cig sockets are normally rated at 10A or possibly 15A if it's a top quality one. At 12V, 10A is only 120W - pretty pathetic for heating (think of small room heaters which are at least 1000W). Also the cig sockets tend to get hot at high currents (as can the under-dash wiring if it's not really up to the job) - I have melted them in the past just using a tyre inflator.

I have a small foldaway heater for mains hookup use that is 400W or 800W which is ok, but anything less isn't really going to do the job (800W at 12V is 67A!)

If mains hook up isn't an option you need to think about petrol or gas heaters which are unfortunately rather more expensive and tricky to install (needing to vent outside).
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:58 pm

Tilly wrote:
I'm afraid it just isn't worth trying to heat your van from 12V.

For anyone not in the know, watts = volts x amps.

I'm not sure what the VW fuse is, but cig sockets are normally rated at 10A or possibly 15A if it's a top quality one. At 12V, 10A is only 120W - pretty pathetic for heating (think of small room heaters which are at least 1000W). Also the cig sockets tend to get hot at high currents (as can the under-dash wiring if it's not really up to the job) - I have melted them in the past just using a tyre inflator.

I have a small foldaway heater for mains hookup use that is 400W or 800W which is ok, but anything less isn't really going to do the job (800W at 12V is 67A!)

If mains hook up isn't an option you need to think about petrol or gas heaters which are unfortunately rather more expensive and tricky to install (needing to vent outside).

Really heated windscreen is the thing to rely on. In a perfect conversion, the converter in the UK should duct the heater (webasto in aircooled, water system on water cooled) through to the factory built vents in the dash - with a lever control to choose demist, or warm your feet. Cost cutting, or lack of design capability or whatever, Danbury seem just to dismantle the whole thing in a RHD conversion, and just leave you warming your feet with no demist option. The claim is that the heated windcreen will do the job...well kind of. Better maybe when the vehicle is cold, and a heater only blasts cold air, but not so good once a heater blower is going well, and keeping your side windows demisted too!
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:51 pm

@dartmoor wrote:
Danbury seem just to dismantle the whole thing in a RHD conversion, and just leave you warming your feet with no demist option.

Don't forget this is because the RHD heater control mechanism is no longer available - it's not really Danbury's fault.

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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:58 pm

@TimV wrote:
@dartmoor wrote:
Danbury seem just to dismantle the whole thing in a RHD conversion, and just leave you warming your feet with no demist option.

Don't forget this is because the RHD heater control mechanism is no longer available - it's not really Danbury's fault.

It could be fabricated though I expect
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:20 pm

Dartmoor, you wrote
"The claim is that the heated windcreen will do the job...well kind of. Better maybe when the vehicle is cold, and a heater only blasts cold air, but not so good once a heater blower is going well, and keeping your side windows demisted too!"

Irishman and myself have been thinking along these lines - trying to maintain some hot air to the side windows (and in my case to the windscreen too).
See General Technical > Heating system
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:34 pm

Quote :
In a perfect conversion, the converter in the UK should duct the heater (webasto in aircooled, water system on water cooled) through to the factory built vents in the dash - with a lever control to choose demist, or warm your feet. Cost cutting, or lack of design capability or whatever, Danbury seem just to dismantle the whole thing in a RHD conversion, and just leave you warming your feet with no demist option.

I haven't seen an untouched Brazilian Bay but I suspect the ducting to choose demist or warm your feet wasn't actually there in the first place - presumably they don't need heaters in Brazil so there isn't one, and consequently much simpler ducting than we have become used to in modern cars in this country. It looks to me as though there were just the front flaps controlled by the now-missing slider control beside the speedometer, ducted straight to the windscreen slots and the side vents (the latter bing able to be individually controlled). No other flaps or controls in the system.

Who knows how well sealed the original front flaps were when shut, but very possibly not draught- or water- proof enough for our winters. Having just said that - do LHD Danbury-converted Brazilians still have their flaps operational?

Agreed, it should be possible to have the relevant parts manufactured but probably at a prohibitive cost (the setup costs to have a plastic part moulded runs into 10s of £1000s).

One possibility might be to visit a scrappie and get some parts from a donor vehicle (I'm thinking control box with flap etc as well as ducting itself) but you'd have to look around for suitably-sized stuff. The heater controls should be relatively easy as they usually operate the flaps etc. via a cable, so you have flexibility in positioning both.





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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:47 pm

I'm liking OSG and Irishmans idea's on ducting heat from the floor mounted blower to the side vents. Thinking of making a triangular funnel to cover half the heater, out of plastic (possibly thin sofit board if it will take the heat) to feed the hose efficiantly.
Also i would be interested in any ideas on getting heat in the back when driving. Have looked at the boat/caravan heaters and they are pricey.

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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:57 pm

Just be careful everyone with whatever material you use to create your makeshift ducting. You wouldn't want to spoil the party by setting fire to the underside of your dash. affraid

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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:51 pm

Tilly wrote:
Quote :
In a perfect conversion, the converter in the UK should duct the heater (webasto in aircooled, water system on water cooled) through to the factory built vents in the dash - with a lever control to choose demist, or warm your feet. Cost cutting, or lack of design capability or whatever, Danbury seem just to dismantle the whole thing in a RHD conversion, and just leave you warming your feet with no demist option.

I haven't seen an untouched Brazilian Bay but I suspect the ducting to choose demist or warm your feet wasn't actually there in the first place - presumably they don't need heaters in Brazil so there isn't one, and consequently much simpler ducting than we have become used to in modern cars in this country. It looks to me as though there were just the front flaps controlled by the now-missing slider control beside the speedometer, ducted straight to the windscreen slots and the side vents (the latter bing able to be individually controlled). No other flaps or controls in the system.

Who knows how well sealed the original front flaps were when shut, but very possibly not draught- or water- proof enough for our winters. Having just said that - do LHD Danbury-converted Brazilians still have their flaps operational?

I have one, LHD with no changes. The lever only opens the flaps and the airflow comes throught the vents on the dash, there is no other mechanism for deflecting the air to the feet.





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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:33 pm

for general ad-hoc heating (taking the edge off a cold morning/evening) anyone used one of these or recommend anything similar

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gelert-Gas-Heater-Black/dp/B00322QQ9M

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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:41 pm

I bought something very similar (for the same price but without p&p) at vanfest last weekend, but haven't used it yet!

1.1kW sounds about the right output. The problem with gas heaters tends to be condensation, but time will tell...
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:47 pm

How about a 12v travel hair dryer? You could mount it on some sort of swivel device - like those oscillating fan thingy's - and 'hey presto', your screen is clear once more.

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:38 am

I mounted a Maplin 12v ceramic heater on the side of the water heater so that Liz got a bit a warm air on her feet in winter (ah!). I plumbed in an extra socket under the dash (connected to the cigarette lighter circuit), but had to put in a 20A fuse to stop the circuit from blowing. For the short distance that the heater has to blow air (a couple of feet), it does fine, but considering the current draw it's pretty poor.

Kiteman gave me a demo of his wonderful heater upgrade at Vanfest, look elsewhere on the forum for his build details. He has successfully got hot air running to the screen vents. I'm seriously thinking of doing something similar (though less sophisticated myself).

I'd love to get a heater control working from the vertical slot in the dashboard - beam me up Scottie!
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:19 am

The trouble with running a heater from a 12V battery is the huge currents involved. Heater output is all about wattage - 20A at 12V is only 240W absolute max. Contrast with stephenjedward's little gas heater which has a heat output of 1100W max.

I'd be a bit wary of just upping a fuse rating, you really need to make sure the wiring is up to it too, other wise it will get hot and possibly melt.

My wintertime project is hopefully going to be to attach two vents from Car Builder Solutions to the underside of the dash each side of the handbrake and attach them to the output of the underdash heater with ducting in the same way as kiteman has (possibly with a foot outlet too). I also got Danbury to give me the little lever and other ducting they took out so I can hopefully put it back it in, and connect the dash lever to the front flaps with a cable, and get fresh air through the side vents. I don't use Tilly once there is salt on the roads so it's only for the chilly spells in spring and autumn (&summer!).
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:05 am

Quite agree regarding wiring. I traced it back to the fuse box and used high Amperage automotive cable to make the connections.

I'll be interested to see how people get on with those portable gas heaters. I too have looked at them. I guess you've just got to make sure that you've got plenty of ventilation! Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:21 am

@Roobarb wrote:
Quite agree regarding wiring. I traced it back to the fuse box and used high Amperage automotive cable to make the connections.

I'll be interested to see how people get on with those portable gas heaters. I too have looked at them. I guess you've just got to make sure that you've got plenty of ventilation! Shocked

ive ordered the gelert heater and will road test it over the brighton breeze weekend
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:34 am

FYI: Gas heaters = condensation......Everyone has their own opinion on this but I dont like them...

Also all new model Danbury VW T2 now come with working fresh airvents on the dash as standard cheers
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PostSubject: Re: heaters   Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:47 am

Quote :
Also all new model Danbury VW T2 now come with working fresh airvents on the dash as standard

From approx what date?

We picked up Tallulah in March this year and as with others, all of the ducting and controls has been stripped out.

The cab heater does a great job of warming the drivers legs but not a lot else, it woudl be graet to get some ducting put back in to spread it out a bit.

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