Is there still a good market for Brazi Bays ?

Just wondering - I know the cost of new Kombi's is a little on the high side no matter who you buy them from it seems ........

Do you think despite the recession and increasing VAT and all the other stuff the Government can throw at us, there is still a thriving market for these vehicles?

I ask this question and then want to ask another (and I would like to point out straight away this is no reflection on anyone already doing this just me thinking out loud so please dont read anything into this traders ) but do you think people would be interested in buying with the following in mind:

No Gimmics - just honest good old fashioned service with a long term customer relationship in mind
No million and 1 options just - here is your van you can have it LHD or RHD
Any colour you want to have the bottom half resprayed
Waxolyed from new by default
No suspension or other fancy mods
Chrome headlight rims, Hubcaps and mirrors by default with fitted radio (ipod connection)
Can have interior fitted out for a camper with various budget options in mind -i.e from just Rock and roll bed to full interior or supply and fit yourself.

Bottom line is offering people value for their money backed up by someone who cares about their customers and also keeping these vans alive?

I would be very interested in your opinions on this ?

Thanks

(BTW Merry Christmas )

Are you thinking of becoming another importer? I always think competition is a good thing whatever, but I would say that Danburys and Downunder would say they do pretty much what's on your list?

dartmoor wrote:

Are you thinking of becoming another importer? I always think competition is a good thing whatever, but I would say that Danburys and Downunder would say they do pretty much what's on your list?

Yes thinking about it, would mean a total career change if it went well, but as with everything research and understanding the market is the cornerstone to any business.

So any feedback from this site would be very useful indeed.

Many thanks

stan wrote:

dartmoor wrote:

Are you thinking of becoming another importer? I always think competition is a good thing whatever, but I would say that Danburys and Downunder would say they do pretty much what's on your list?

Yes thinking about it, would mean a total career change if it went well, but as with everything research and understanding the market is the cornerstone to any business.

So any feedback from this site would be very useful indeed.

Many thanks

I would say it would be risky. There are two well established players already - Danburys with full spares capacity and years of experience. However, the main fact in my mind would be how long VW Brazil will continue manufacturing the T2. Its expensive to make because its a labour intensive process - the body was never designed to be put together by robots. So the manufacturing process cannot be modernised - which equals rising cost. My bet would be 2014 being the end. VW may re-create the microbus project (rumours), but then they would sell that directly.

Danbury have other products to fall back on - the T5, and a Fiat conversion - as well as continued servicing for the T2. Downunder do up old T2s I believe.

So I would say don't create a business solely dependent on selling Brazilian Bays - make sure you have other income lines that will sustain the business when the T2 is no longer made new.

If you need an indication as to whether there's a market for the Kombi - just head down to Danbury on any given day ...

I was under the impression that the kombi would very shortly fail the new upcoming europian laws for vehicles and so will not be able to be sold over here, so i think your on a hiding to nothing. Also i have a feeling that all the company's selling new kombi's over here source them from Dandury's, although i'm not sure about downunder.

Good information thanks - funny you should mention a 1 horse business - I told my friend the same when he started his Beetle Garage about 10 years ago - not to stick with Beetles but do other cars - he lasted 12 months before the bottom dropped out of the market! Shame

I also have my doubts how long Vw will still make the Kombi especially if they want to build a new one -it will be like the New Beetle - once that is on track the old one was shutdown - a bigger shame in my view!

Well this is just pie in the sky currently and I asked these questions to see what you think? If anyone knows its bound to be you folks since you already have them.

One other thing - would you ideally want to have a Danbury type - here is your van off you go - there are the keys but you have to pay the going rate or is value for money equally important?

stan wrote:

I also have my doubts how long Vw will still make the Kombi especially if they want to build a new one -it will be like the New Beetle - once that is on track the old one was shutdown - a bigger shame in my view!

VW didn't kill off the old Bug because of the new model. It was selling successfully still in Mexico and Brazil up until the mid 2000s when a new law was passed in Mexico stating that all new Taxis had to have rear doors. That killed production overnight.

The new model VW Camper, which we anticipate pre-production models of in 2012 will not be a competitor to the Brazilian Kombi in that it will have retro appeal in a modern form, like the new Beetle, new MINI, new Fiat 500 etc. The Brazilian Kombi that we as owners and enthusiasts know is built specifically to be a utilitarian vehicle in its home market. Why else would it only come in white!?!

What needs to be considered is how long the current production run will keep going once the new legislation comes into force in Brazil requiring abs and airbags to be fitted as standard. From what I've researched the current Kombi has the potential to go all the way to 2014 which is when 100% of new vehicles must comply. Volkswagen may very well choose between now and then to pull the plug and replace the Kombi with a cut down version of the T5. Only Volkswagen can know.

The important thing is, and I think I speak for many of us on here, we own and love our BraziBays because they're different, they're retro and they appeal. Sure you could say that buying one is very much an act of the heart, but at the same time the majority of folk who own them have mortgages and other financial responsibilties that will curtail how much people are prepared to and can pay for one. The pricing is totally relevant and in today's climate people do want and should get value for money, particularly with so much information available to them via the web - including this very site.

Danury are pretty good when it comes to designing and getting your Kombi. You can pretty much tell them what you want and they will do it. I ended up getting the basic Amigo interior and got them to do the big things I didn't want to tackle. Paint, Pop Top, RHD conversion, then did the rest of the work myself.

As for value for money, everyone wants that, but your not going to get that from any vehicle dealer realy, no matter who it is. It's always going to be cheaper to do it yourself.

If the Brazilian Kombi was cheaper I think you would see a much greater demand for it, the price does seem to be the big thing with them, especially when I think what I could have got for the money.
The majority of the people I've spoken to with original Bays can't seem to justify spending that amount, even though a full refuerb will probably cost more,

But that's not why you buy them, It's everything that goes with owning a classic style VW.
Like the Advert goes, Driving down the road with a huge smile on your face, acknowledging people with the same experience. Priceless.

One of the things that has impressed me about Danbury is the quality of the units. After five years my kitchen top, cupboards and wardrobe were still absolutely like brand new. I may have criticised Danbury's wiring and RHD conversion, but I think their camper conversion is top notch.

Thanks very much folks it's interesting to get your opinions as well as the late bay from the classic side o the bay world.

Hope you have a great Christmas and all the best for the new year

stan wrote:

Just wondering - I know the cost of new Kombi's is a little on the high side no matter who you buy them from it seems ........

Do you think despite the recession and increasing VAT and all the other stuff the Government can throw at us, there is still a thriving market for these vehicles?

I ask this question and then want to ask another (and I would like to point out straight away this is no reflection on anyone already doing this just me thinking out loud so please dont read anything into this traders ) but do you think people would be interested in buying with the following in mind:

No Gimmics - just honest good old fashioned service with a long term customer relationship in mind
No million and 1 options just - here is your van you can have it LHD or RHD
Any colour you want to have the bottom half resprayed
Waxolyed from new by default
No suspension or other fancy mods
Chrome headlight rims, Hubcaps and mirrors by default with fitted radio (ipod connection)
Can have interior fitted out for a camper with various budget options in mind -i.e from just Rock and roll bed to full interior or supply and fit yourself.

Bottom line is offering people value for their money backed up by someone who cares about their customers and also keeping these vans alive?

I would be very interested in your opinions on this ?

Thanks

(BTW Merry Christmas )

Ironically you have listed a load of options in your 'one spec for all' approach.

The Market for campers is booming with many families looking to holiday in England at the moment, and Danbury has a very full workshop.

Hi Stan, just reading through your posts, are you Stan from Caravan Supplies I met at your stand last year at the show?

FYI.
VW Downunder import Brazilion Bays
They sort them to there custemers individual requirements.
Mine is from there & Im well happy with the van & the quality of there product.
Regards.
Nick

Thanks for the replies folks
Olive sorry not this Stan mut have been another.

Dean&jo the options I listed would be mostly no cost , other than interior of course.
I repeat this is just thinking out loud and stuff that came into my head on the spot at the time I posted, interesting to see a different viewpoint on the classic bay site. There seems to be a clear cut break between new bay and classic and never the twain should meet which I find a bit surprising ? They are the same vehicles bar engine and radiator obviously which concerns me in terms to te larger appeal? I have and had in the past always air-cooled vw's as well as a t25 and t4? When I get too old to crawl under my Bay a T5 will probably be on the cards?!!! Oh well each to their own......

Nick I am glad your happy with your van sounds like they did a good job for you.

I don't agree about a divide between Classic and BraziBay.

If you look at the market that buys into the Kombi, a good proportion have already owned a Classic Bay. They've bought a new one because they don't want hassle and they are in the position to do so.

I find that the majority of criticism comes from people that don't know anything about them and go on hearsay.

Prices for decent Classic Bays are now in the mid 20k region. You can strip out an old Bay, fill it with new wiring, seats, suspension, engine etc but ultimately it's in a frame that is 30 years old. You then have a vehicle that has not been put together by Volkswagen but built by whoever did the restoration. That opens up the quality of work issue. Who's to say this is a good restoration over that one?

I agree with you Tim, I know a few 'Classic' owners who think the Brazi is just as good as the German variant.

Thanks for the replies, I do agree with you and posted similar comments elsewhere, the funny thing is most resto panels will be from the same source - i.e Brazil!

Anyway regardless what other people say its a personal decision to buy these vehicles old or new. Like I mentioned regardless of any business ideas I would be very tempted to buy 1 for myself the thought of straight body panels and rust protection from day 1 is very tempting

stan wrote:

the thought of straight body panels and rust protection from day 1 is very tempting

Says it all really.

It's the main reason I went for a Brazi, in the longrun will probably end up being cheaper.

I agree Kiteman.....Dont forget the fuel economy is far better in a new 'Brazi bay' aswell and at £5 a gal that soon adds up as an owner! Ive seen some horrible restoration jobs on older VW's in my time with the owner often unaware as someone else did the work before they had it.....or its just been covered up.

Agree with that Jason, we looked at restored buses, but not sure what we would be getting.
We've just driven from Brighton to Dorset and back on one tank of fuel, not bad going!

I've restored 2 old Volkswagens - a '63 Golde Ragtop Beetle and a one owner '82 Golf GTi. Because I wanted them 'just right' they took an age - 2 years for the Bug and a year for the GTi. I didn't want to have to go through that again with my Bus. So here I am. Solid Bus - but one I can still tinker with.